View Full Version : I need a fit up for a roadie
Hey all
Where would you guys recommend i go for a fit up?
I bought a Pinarello and i think i may have gotten rorted on the bike i got and would like to make sure its the right bike for me. I think they offloaded it to me to get the sale and to get the 2009 bike off their stock. I cant get comfortable on it and would like to get a second opinion on the size and fitment
I do realise that it is probably going to cost me a small fee as you dont get anything for free these days, especially given i didnt buy the bike from them.
I was thinking King of the Mountain, a mate got a great fitting bike there, and Avanti Chatswood as Andrea's comfortable on her bike straight up but would like to hear some more opinions first
Who do you guys consider the best in the business?
Thanks
Brad
Bike Kid
11-10-09, 09:19 PM
Le Spit Cyclery, thats where i get all my stuff and was fitted up, ask to talk to Rodney, he des a great job!
a.davis12
11-10-09, 09:29 PM
what about it is not comfortable exactly?
lone-rider
11-10-09, 09:39 PM
Le Spit Cyclery, thats where i get all my stuff and was fitted up, ask to talk to Rodney, he des a great job!
Yogi at Le Spit is a nice guy not sure if he is does the fittings though.
Avanti Chatswood pretty good, i take me bike there to get serviced when i need a tune before a race, as i don't trust me regular tuning, Robs pretty good there.
Everyone is helpful at the store
what about it is not comfortable exactly?
My neck hurts every time i ride it. My wrists kill me and after 20 klms yesterday my shoulders hurt as well.
I guess another wuestion i should ask is after riding a MTB for so long is the road bike likely to hurt me until i get some klms on the speedo? I know its a totally different style of bike but i didnt think it would be different enough to put me in this type of pain
a.davis12
11-10-09, 09:54 PM
it is a big jump from a duallie to a roady and that will probably make up for a lot of what your describing....
BUT!
it sounds like you are too far forward/low down.
sore wrists = too much weight on them = too far forward/low (sort of the same with shoulders)
sore neck = bit too low craning to see ahead
they may have you fitted you in a super awesome aero racer position, which won't work for someone just starting road riding.
Get a fit, but for now maybe just try raising your stem (if there are any spacers on top of it) or flipping it (if it is angle down).
how tall are you and what size is the bike?
I have flipped the stem and put all the spacers under the stem so the bars are as far up as they can be.
From the centre of the head tube to the centre of the seat tube its 55cm, and its 57cm from centre of the BB to top of the seat tube. I am 5 11 but am super long in the in seam apparently. I told the guy i had long legs and when he measured me he was quite shocked lol
I just hope they know what they were doing because when i got the bike home i couldnt even touch the ground with my feet the seat was so high. I have dropped it and can just keep myself balanced on my tippy toes now
Given the ammount of cash i spent i just need to get it sorted as i want to ride the Sydney to Gong ride on it and dont really want to resort to the MTB :(
a.davis12
11-10-09, 10:07 PM
youre like me!
in fact you are identical. I have stupid long legs, but im still only 5'11.
how long is your stem?
I measured it from the centre of the forks to where the handle bar cap begins (ie the cap that holds the bars on could be described as not there) and it was 85mm. Is that how you measure them.
a.davis12
11-10-09, 10:14 PM
I measured it from the centre of the forks to where the handle bar cap begins (ie the cap that holds the bars on could be described as not there) and it was 85mm. Is that how you measure them.
i would have thought from what you were saying that you had a long stem and that would be the cause of your troubles, but you don't so now i really don't know.
I say find a competent bike fitter and get them to have another look at you.
one last question though, how far back is your seat on the saddle rails and is the seatpost straight or setback?
A quick guide that i use before fine tuning the fit...
1. Sit on the bike with your hands on the brake hoods in your normal riding position.
2. Look down at the front hub.
3. You should be able to see the hub just in front of the bars.
Is the front hub behind or in front of the flat part of the handlebars?
85mm is a pretty short stem. Is that from centre to centre? I'd go for the right top tube length over seat tube length for the frame. I wonder if they did just give you a frame size that they thought was 'close enough'.
straight seat post and the seat is quite forward now, in fact almost as far forward as it will be (though i havent ridden it like this yet) The Most Leopard seat says it was set at about 5, (when the number would appear in the centre of the bracket) now the zero is under the front part of the bracket.
Thats what i am worried about Grant. It was one of the last 2009 in stock and they were pretty happy to move it below rrp
Will sit on the bike tomorrow and see how it goes against your guide. I am off to sleep
Thanks for all the advice so far
there is a fairly comprehensive bike sizing check here. Try it out!
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO
^^ That's what i use to fit up my road bikes as well.....
Grant's quick test is a good guide as well.....
thanks guys. Will do some measurements tomorrow and make some adjustments with hopes it gets a little more comfy :D
i did the fit calculator thing and found a 58cm top tube was my ideal length. i would have thought 60-64cm would have been right for me as im 6'3, so im pretty tall. but the 58cm fits me good. so its smaller than what id originally anticipated. i had(still have) slight pain in my hands as theyre not used to the bars and my whole body generally feels a bit odd after riding the roadie. it definitely takes a bit of getting used to. apparently core strength is supposed to help too, it takes the weight off your hands and shoulders etc.
it suck if the top tube length is too long. if you're running a short stem and still feel stretched out. you may have to go for a different handlebar with shorter reach.
there is only one person to get fitted on a bike
Steve Hogg's
and it wont cost u a small bit
any proper fit wont cost u small bit
Is the front hub behind or in front of the flat part of the handlebars?
I rode the bike a little bit to make sure i was in teh right position and the hub is under the bars. I cant see the hub at all.
Now that i have been able to see the bike in the light the stem is 90mm
I am going to do the fit that Jing linked up as well and see what it tells me
I would say that if you are already on a 90mm stem then the top tube is too long by about 20mm at least. I think they sold you the wrong size frame.:(
A shorter stem will affect the handling too much i reckon, but you could still try it. The shorter reach bars suggested earlier could be another option but will they come back far enough?
How long have you had the bike? I'd take it back and tell them the problems and see what they'll do.
I have probably had it a month. Given the weather i have only been able to ride it twice, a total of 55klms along the M7 cycle path :(
If its not right i would really like my money back and this is why i want a couple of reputable shops to give me the yes or no for frame size
Can anyone tell me what the different fits are on the Competitive Cyclist web page? It came up with the following measurements but i have no idea what the fits are
The Competitive Fit The Eddy Fit The French Fit
Seat tube range c-c 58.8 - 59.3 60.0 - 60.5 61.7 - 62.2
Seat tube range c-t 60.6 - 61.1 61.8 - 62.3 63.5 - 64.0
Top tube length 53.7 - 54.1 53.7 - 54.1 54.9 - 55.3
Stem Length 11.2 - 11.8 10.1 - 10.7 10.3 - 10.9
BB-Saddle Position 77.9 - 79.9 77.1 - 79.1 75.4 - 77.4
Saddle-Handlebar 53.7 - 54.3 54.5 - 55.1 56.2 - 56.8
Saddle Setback 7.9 - 8.3 9.1 - 9.5 8.6 - 9.0
Tthese just mean how 'racey' you want the fit to be.
Competitive fit is for TDF riders - very aerodynamic, hands low with a forward bum position
Eddy fit is the Eddy Merckx fit for keen riders who train a fair bit, less craned neck and easier forward-looking position
French fit is the most relaxed fit designed for riders who really want to be comfortable and fast over longer distances
See here (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO)
Thanks for the explanations Darryl. For some reason i cant open the links for the fit explanations. I guess i want the French :D
After checking those numbers, how far different are they to your frame size?
How tall are you Brad? I just checked your tread for the bike and you say its a 54cm - that should fit someone between 165-175cm? I ride a 56.5cm and i'm 182.5cm tall.
I'd say you have the right frame size at 54cm
"Top tube length 53.7 - 54.1 53.7 - 54.1 54.9 - 55.3"
I am 180cm Darryl but have an inseam of 91cm. I have long legs
i may have measured the seat tube wrong previously as i measured it to the top of the tube, now measured to centre of the top tube. Here goes
Seat tube range 54cm
top tube 56cm
stem 90mm
sadle position currently 79cm
sadle handle bar 49cm
dont know if it means anything to you or not lol
measure centre of bb to centre of top tube where it meets seat tube
i measured it that way this time. As per the fit calculator the measurements are above
The measurements you've put up look okay, but if it doesn't feel right it's not right.
That fit calculator puts me on a frame with a 520mm top tube and a 100mm stem. My bike has a 540mm top tube with a 100mm stem and it's more comfortable than my older bike of the 'correct' size because it gives me the KOPS position i like instead of being behind the pedal spindle.
I reckon you should take the bike to a reputable shop or builder who can see what you've got and try to fit you up on it and see what they say. If it's not a workable frame size at least then you've got the support of a reputable person to back up your claim. Tai suggested Steve Hogg, i'd also suggest Paul Hillbrick. I'm not sure if Steve has a motor driven sizing bike like Paul does though and it's cool to feel the frame changing dimensions while you're on it!
top tube 56cm
Is that length measured horizontally or along the top tube?
Grant, not sure what you mean, although it is proabbly very simple lol how it can be measured differently?
i just ran a tape measure along the side of the top tube from centre of seat tube to the centre of the head tube.
This shit is alot more complicated thani thought lol I am so glad i didnt buy an e-bay bike, though it sounds like i should have done some more research and found a bike shop with more experienced fitters :(
I was thinking that the top tube length you measured on your bike with a 90mm stem probably seemed okay. But then i wondered how you measured it. The top tube length should always be measured horizontally from centre to centre.
So, measure from the centre of the head tube at the top of the head tube (not the top of the stem).
Hold the tape measure so it is horizontal/parallel to the ground.
Where the horizontal tape measure intersects with the centre of the seat tube/post (assuming the post is straight and not a Thomson lay-back model) is the proper top tube length.
It should measure a bit longer than 56cm i reckon with the fit problems you're having.
ok, all i did was held the tape measure against the side of the top tube and measured from centre to centre.
So the correct way is to remove the forks and hold the tape paralel to the ground, regardless of wether it leave the side of the top tube, and where is meets the centre of the seat post is your measurement.
I dont know about removing the forks, but i guess you would get a damn good idea holding the tape beside the top of the headtube at the centre and measure from there.
dont you hate us noob's lol
ok, all i did was held the tape measure against the side of the top tube and measured from centre to centre.
So the correct way is to remove the forks and hold the tape paralel to the ground, regardless of wether it leave the side of the top tube, and where is meets the centre of the seat post is your measurement.
I dont know about removing the forks, but i guess you would get a damn good idea holding the tape beside the top of the headtube at the centre and measure from there.
dont you hate us noob's lol
http://www.surlybikes.com/blogimages/spew17_1.jpg
from surly's website (http://www.surlybikes.com/blog/spew/spew_17_bike_fit/)
You measured the "Top Tube C-C", where you need to be measuring "Top Tube Effective". No need to remove the forks, just guess the horizontal & measure to where it intersects the seatpost.
This (http://www.pinarello.com/else/geometrie_01.pdf) and this (http://www.pinarello.com/else/geometrie_02.pdf) might help too.
thanks Jarod
Just rang the shop i bought it from and i am going to take it back and explain to them whats going on. I feel its only right to let them attempt to rectify the fit before i go much further with it. If its no better after the second attempt i will decide then what to do
Thankyou to all the comments on fitting and frame size etc i will measure the top tube this afternoon and let you know how long it is
So the correct way is to remove the forks and hold the tape paralel to the ground, regardless of wether it leave the side of the top tube, and where is meets the centre of the seat post is your measurement.
I dont know about removing the forks, but i guess you would get a damn good idea holding the tape beside the top of the headtube at the centre and measure from there.
Doing what you've said in your second paragraph there should be good enough. You shouldn't have to remove the forks. Otherwise you could check the seat tube measurement against the online specs to see what the manufacturer says there top tube length is.
And the other guys already said all that. :)
a.davis12
13-10-09, 06:02 PM
this is vastly off topic but, zipps make a bike so much more comfy:p.
as does rotating the bars down (for me anyway).
its all things for me to try Mr Davis :)
Just measured it and i got 55cm
If your initial measurement for the top tube was 56cm from the centre of the head tube to the centre of the seat tube when measuring along the top tube, then unless the top tube is sloping down from the seat tube to the head tube you shouldn't get a smaller number than 56cm when measuring it horizontally. It should be a bigger/longer measurement.
http://www.turnerbikes.com/images/TopTubeMeasure.jpg
a.davis12
13-10-09, 10:00 PM
uncle pythag disagrees. depends on the seat tube angle.
Its because the head tube angles back at the top.
When i use the centre of the top tube, ie my initial measurement, i am further down the head tube and given the angle of it its further forward.
When i measure it as you have told me to the head tube angle causes the measurement to be closer to the seat tube. The seat tube doesnt have a heap of angle on this bike so its slightly closer
uncle pythag disagrees. depends on the seat tube angle.
When i use the centre of the top tube, ie my initial measurement, i am further down the head tube and given the angle of it its further forward.
When i measure it as you have told me to the head tube angle causes the measurement to be closer to the seat tube. The seat tube doesnt have a heap of angle on this bike so its slightly closer
The horizontal length is always the hypotenuse if the sides of the triangle are the horizontal length, the top tube and the seat tube.
If my description wasn't good enough the image above shows what i was trying to describe when measuring the length. :)
went back to the bike shop i purchased it from and they reckon it my posture and lack of time in the saddle of a roadie. I do admit my posture sucks and its something i need to work on.
Given this i am going to go somewhere else and see what their thoughts are.
Maybe i am simply not fit enough to riding a road bike! So it looks like slicks and the Trance for Sydney to the Gong ride for me.
They should not have sold you that bike then or set it up so it is comfortable. You could always get a lower and longer stem once you get a bit more flexible. They obviously just wanted to move the stock.
Which shop was it?
I told them at the initial fit up that i had a bad neck and they also commented on my posture so they said they would fit it up for comfort lol I might just sell it and buy a flat bar, will probably be better off for me in the end. That Masi to be relased in early 2010 looks nice and would look cool with flat bars on it :)
I wont name it but its close to the start of the F3 ;)
I might just sell it and buy a flat bar, will probably be better off for me in the end. That Masi to be relased in early 2010 looks nice and would look cool with flat bars on it :)
Brad, you need to chill for a minute and work out what you actually want to ride, what kind of riding you want to do and where...
To me it seems like that isn't 100% in your head as you keep bouncing between different bikes that are meant for different kinds of riding.
All bikes have different geometries and configurations so some form of unfamiliarity should be expected but with kms comes comfort and you need to be ready for that.
e.g putting flat bars on a Pinarello road bike is retarded.
you know all this could be down to one small adjustment... stem height, stem length, seat height, seat position....etc
ukalipt
16-10-09, 12:53 PM
went back to the bike shop i purchased it from and they reckon it my posture and lack of time in the saddle of a roadie. I do admit my posture sucks and its something i need to work on.
Given this i am going to go somewhere else and see what their thoughts are.
Maybe i am simply not fit enough to riding a road bike! So it looks like slicks and the Trance for Sydney to the Gong ride for me.
i am entering this thread late. but.
when i first started riding my roadie i had a burning pain in my neck for quiet a while
i am talking 3-4 weeks. it slowly went away.
i now know it was more me and my posture. i was fitted up and that was about 1/2
an hours worth of time at the bike store.
i can occasionally get the same pain. but i know now it has a bit to do with the
tensing up whilst riding. i tend to hold the bars a little tight and hunch my shoulders.
i still get pains when i ride the MTB for a long time. i think that is because i do so
much training on the roadie then jump on the MTB and the geometry's are so
different. before each race i try to go for at least one big ride on the MTB to get
the body back into the position.
i also think it is about time i went back for another fitting. your body does change
and mine especially due to the increased amount of riding and stretching and
training i have been for so long now.
brad... stick with it mate. it can / does take time but i wouldn't give up
doing
Fuck this post ended up huge lol
Brad, you need to chill for a minute and work out what you actually want to ride, what kind of riding you want to do and where...
To me it seems like that isn't 100% in your head as you keep bouncing between different bikes that are meant for different kinds of riding.
All bikes have different geometries and configurations so some form of unfamiliarity should be expected but with kms comes comfort and you need to be ready for that.
e.g putting flat bars on a Pinarello road bike is retarded.
Mate if i need to walk the bike back to the car again because of pain, like i did last weekend, i will simply leave it on the cycle way for someone to take home. I have not needed physio/accupuncture since the beginning of the year and i am almost to a point where i need to go back to physio and accupuncture after only 50 klms. I am affraid i am obviously not as keen as some of you on here to ride bikes and therefore not prepared to put myself through it.
I totally understood that i would need some adjusting to the riding position but the pain i am in in beyond adjusting. I dont know if they got lucky but Greg and Andrea only had the tiniest of neck pain from craning/weight of the helmet and they havent ridden bikes in 20 years.
I bought the bike because i wanted a road bike. Apparently the benefit over riding the Trance on the road was well worth the purchase, or so i was told. Its only a fun bike, something to ride along the M7 cycle path and do the occasional friendly road ride on the weekend. Sure, i probably could have spent alot less for what i wanted but I liked the look of it and it had some quality components on it that, given the amount of riding i will do in it, wont need replacing for quite some time. Hindsight tells me i should have just bought some slicks for the Trance.
Do i jump to conclusions, yes i do. I trusted a bike shop with several thousands of my dollars and got something i dont like. I dont understand geometry and the positions required for a compromise of comfort and performance, hence the reason i went to a bike store and trusted them as they are the experts. As i said, the guy knew i had experienced neck pains and apparently fitted the bike up for comfort. If that was comfort then i would hate to feel pain lol
I dont think people understand this was not your normal dull pain that you would probably experience when riding your new bike, as i did when i bought my Trance. This was, and still is a week later, quite serious pain which i have enjoyed not having for the last 10 months. Its the sort of pain i am not prepared to push through. It is much easier for me to simply sell it and ride the Trance.
i am entering this thread late. but. when i first started riding my roadie i had a burning pain in my neck for quiet a whilei am talking 3-4 weeks. it slowly went away.
i now know it was more me and my posture. i was fitted up and that was about 1/2 an hours worth of time at the bike store.
i can occasionally get the same pain. but i know now it has a bit to do with the tensing up whilst riding. i tend to hold the bars a little tight and hunch my ahoulders.
i still get pains when i ride the MTB for a long time. i think that is because i do so
much training on the roadie then jump on the MTB and the geometry's are so
different. before each race i try to go for at least one big ride on the MTB to get
the body back into the position.
i also think it is about time i went back for another fitting. your body does change
and mine especially due to the increased amount of riding and stretching and
training i have been for so long now.
brad... stick with it mate. it can / does take time but i wouldn't give up
doing
it sounds like i ride like you do Matt, but as i have said in the post aboe, i dont enjoy riding on the road enough to push through it. I have lived with this pain for a long time and i dont want it back in my life.
I bought a beautiful bike but its not enough tokeep me in the saddle when i have a plush Trance sitting next to it which, in my current state, is a much better ride.
you know all this could be down to one small adjustment... stem height, stem length, seat height, seat position....etc
And that is why i need some advice lol that may be all it is, it also could be the wrong sized bike. I dont know!!
i can occasionally get the same pain. but i know now it has a bit to do with the
tensing up whilst riding. i tend to hold the bars a little tight and hunch my shoulders.
I think this is a very comming problem for people riding a roadie. I started off with the same problem as well, but now i've learnt to relax the shoulders and elbows, and the pain went away soon after........it also helps to have a strong lower back to hold yourself upright so you are not relying on your arms and shoulders to support your upper body on the bars, which causes you to tense up the shoulder and neck muscles....
Mate if i need to walk the bike back to the car again because of pain, like i did last weekend, i will simply leave it on the cycle way for someone to take home. I have not needed physio/accupuncture since the beginning of the year and i am almost to a point where i need to go back to physio and accupuncture after only 50 klms. I am affraid i am obviously not as keen as some of you on here to ride bikes and therefore not prepared to put myself through it.
That to me sounds like a lot more than an ill properly fitted bike...
+1 for Ukalipt's issues... have found my right arm between my elbow and shoulder has been killing me a few times and its all due to how im holding my right hand...
Mate if i need to walk the bike back to the car again because of pain, like i did last weekend, i will simply leave it on the cycle way for someone to take home.
Can you post a thread just before you do it..
it would be like the amazing race.. how exciting haha
:D;)
lone-rider
16-10-09, 04:12 PM
I have lived with this pain for a long time and i dont want it back in my life.
Sounds like you have an issue with your body more than anything. Sounds like you need to be seated upright to avoid bringing back old body issues maybe a touring bike could have been more suitable if the pain is that bad, something where you position is a lot more like sitting up on your Trance. Did you tell the bike shop you were buying it from that you had long term problems with neck pain?
Brad i think you've been sold a bike so they could get rid of it. That's my impression from this thread. If you like the bike and think you can find a workable solution then don't sell it. One thing i reckon too many people get caught up in is how a road bike should look, because you will get shunned by 'real' roadies if you do some things differently. I'm a big believer in setting a bike up to how i like it and not how other people think it should be done. If you want to keep the Pinarello and aren't too worried about averaging 35+km/hr see if changing to a shorter stem with some rise makes a difference. Move the seat a bit more forward and maybe lower it. KOPS is a good way to get the initial seat fore/aft position started, but them make it so it's more comfortable. You're leg shouldn't be perfectly straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke, there should be a slight bend. Set it so you don't feel like you are stretching too far or measure your seat height on the anthem and try to replicate that. It's your bike so if you decide you want to run flat bars because they're more comfortable then give it a go.
If the bike is the right frame size and it's because you can't stretch enough just yet, give it a go with some of the things i've said abouve and gradually start to stretch out more as you get more comfortable on the bike. Since getting my Fuji Team with a 52cm top tube and 90mm stem and whatever seat height i've gone to a 54cm top tube, 100mm stem and increased my seat height by about 30mm and am still very comfortable and not feeling any pain after a ride. Now i can even stay down on the aero bars for 5km stretches without hurting (sometimes i wish i'd put the elbow rests on!).
Don't get stuck with the roadie mentality of it has to look like this. If you really want to keep it just experiment with it a bit and see what works. Otherwise...
Mate if i need to walk the bike back to the car again because of pain, like i did last weekend, i will simply leave it on the cycle way for someone to take home.
Dude, give us a call if this happens, I'll give you a lift back to your car (and happily take your bike :p)
haha, i guess its like a flock of seagulls hey
Dont get me wrong, i am not entirely blaming the bike. I am sure 50% of it is my body. I suffered from neck pain for many years and at the beginning of the year joined the gym. Until the time i joined the gym it was fortnightly visits to the physio for about 4 years. Truth be known i probably should have been fixed within this 4 years, but thats another story. Joined the gym the pain eased so i stopped physio and gained the added advantages of joining the gym.
The bike shop was made well aware of this when i purchased the bike as i somewhat feared i would end up where i am now.
I just dont know if i can give it to much more time to adjust. Andrea has the shits with me for whinging about my neck being sore and to be honest i am sick of complaining about a sore neck again as well lol
I rang Steve Hogg, i think thats his name, and asked what a fit is worth. Sit down if you ever ring him cause its way more than i expected though given the process they go through i can see it would be well worth it if you had the cash. Having said that i got some extra info that was interesting. Margaret, the woman who answered, said the seat tube angle is to aggressive for someone who has the body problems i do. Apparently a less aggressive angle is what i needed as it makes you rely on your back muscles more than your upper body. Does this sound familiar to anybody? I would have thought it was more about seat position....
lol at the flat bars. I told the guy at the bike store last night i was going to turn it into a flat barred fixie if i couldnt get comfy on it!!! the look on his face was Absolutely Priceless!!!
You can adjust the seat angle by sliding the seat back and forward or using a straight or offset seat post. It'll obviously affect the reach to the bars.
thats what i would have thought. The seat is almost as far forward as it can go now so will see how that feels.
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